Interview with Rich Curilla
AS: How long have you been a student of the Alamo?
RC : My Alamo interested started February 23, 1955, when I saw Disney’s Davy Crockett at the Alamo on TV’s Disneyland. I had seen the first two episodes and was already hooked on Davy. I knew every verse in the Jimmy Dodd recording of the ballad, but as a seven-year-old, I couldn’t understand what they meant in the song when they sang, “And they needed him at the Alamo.” Until then, the “Alamo” to me was a restaurant in Knoebels Grove ammusement park near our home in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. So… what? They needed Davy to wash dishes?
My interview with Rich Curilla, historian and curator at the Bracketville set, was conducted July 9th, 2007.
AS: How long have you been a student of the Alamo?
RC : My Alamo interested started February 23, 1955, when I saw Disney’s Davy Crockett at the Alamo on TV’s Disneyland. I had seen the first two episodes and was already hooked on Davy. I knew every verse in the Jimmy Dodd recording of the ballad, but as a seven-year-old, I couldn’t understand what they meant in the song when they sang, “And they needed him at the Alamo.” Until then, the “Alamo” to me was a restaurant in Knoebels Grove ammusement park near our home in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. So… what? They needed Davy to wash dishes?
Of course, this *storybook* Alamo interest would have worn off, but Lon Tinkle’s book 13 Days to Glory was published in 1958 and was the first book I ever read from cover to cover. In fact, my dad had to read most of it to me because of the big words. Then I knew what “really” happened at the Alamo, which, as it turned out, was a real place. My big brother (29 then) wanted to take my dad and mom on a road trip, so we drove to San Antonio, and I got to visit the shrine — for four hours. Just enough to peak my imagination. Back home, my Marx Alamo playset and Topps Davy Crockett bubblegum cards became my best friends, and I built my first Alamo replica — out of Playdough.
Then TV Guide had a brief news release that said, “John Wayne finishes Alamo movie in Brackettville, Texas.” Well, I didn’t know what a Brackettville, Texas, was, or for that matter who John Wayne was, but I was going to find out.
AS: What were your first memories on the Bracketville set? What are your most fondest?
RC: I wrote a letter to “Alamo Movie Location, Brackettville, Texas” asking for photos of the set. Several weeks later, I received a colorful jumbo postcard from a fellow named Happy Shahan telling me about the set and that it would continue to be open to the public. I wore that postcard out, and continued to correspond with Happy, asking all kinds of questions and getting the answers. Then the movie opened, and, over the next several months, I saw it thirteen times. Now my dad and mom wanted to do a road trip and said, “Let’s take Richard down there and get it out of his system.” This time, we spent four days at the real Alamo and four at Alamo Village. I had literally stepped into my fantasy! Try THAT, Pirates of the Caribbean fans!
I guess my fondest memory of that first visit in June of 1961 was the realization of the goal my dad and I had set for the trip. Watching the movie in the previous months, we agreed that some day we would put our hand in the pipe that sticks out of the wall over Widmark’s head when the three of them are standing on the Alamo steps during Blind Nell’s speech. We did that, and I have a cherished photo of Dad standing on the steps under that pipe. Another highlight was running up the road from the village to the Alamo, following the same path that the Mexican lancers rode to demand surrender in the movie.
AS: Tell us about your friendship with the late Happy Shahan and his family.
RC: Because I had corresponded with Happy and then saw him ride up, dismount and talk about the sets in Spirit of the Alamo on TV, he was a bit of a celebrity to me himself — reminded me of Joe Flynn (later on McHale’s Navy). When we finally got in to Alamo Village the second day we were in Brackettville — a Texas gullywasher closed the place the first day (aaarghh!) — Happy was not on the set. So we first met Virginia (his wife) and their two daughters Jamie and Tulisha, both perky young Texas gals. Jamie, with her pigtails, reminded me of Annie Oakley on TV, and I quickly got a fourteen-year-old’s crush on her.
Finally, Happy arrived! He walked right up to me, stuck his hand out and said, “Hi, my name’s Shahan,” just like he did in Spirit of the Alamo. Over the next several days, Happy sat and talked with us many times and even took us up to his office and gave me several 8×10 stills from The Alamo. He had a great way with kids, and it worked.
I continued to keep in touch with Happy over the years and then started to work for him during my summer vacations from college. I was in Theater Arts and Film Production at Penn State, so summers doing gunfight mellodramas at Alamo Village made sense to my dad and mom. During my five years of Alamo Village summers — and the fall Bandolero! was filmed — Happy and Virginia were like my second parents — and I got to live in the Alamo in the middle of a 22,000 acre Texas cattle ranch! How good can it get?
AS: What are your duties on the Bracketville set today? What are some obstacles you face?
RC : I returned permanently to Alamo Village in 1988 and have been working there ever since, even though I don’t live in the Alamo anymore. When I first returned, it was with the purpose of making my own westerns with Happy. But he didn’t hire people to do that, so I had to work a maintenance day job when we weren’t doing the summer street entertainment. After two years of basic grunt work, I finally got *promoted* and set up in an office to write and plan our first B-Western called Travis Smith. We shot it in 1992 with our own actors, but were never able to market it since we originated it on S-VHS videotape rather than film. I wrote several more screenplays to shoot at Alamo Village, but Happy’s illness and 1996 death kept these from becoming reality. In 1998, Virginia Shahan supported the production and completion of my direct-to-video docudrama Alamo: The New Defenders, based on Alamo 162, a living history event at Alamo Village. This, unfortunately, is not currently available for sale, though hopefully soon.
My job at Alamo Village today is a unique blend of my talents. I direct and perform in the summer skits, provide Alamo Village and Alamo tours as a docent and am generally available to visit with tourists on the streets. I am the resident historian. This includes Alamo Village history, Alamo movie history and that of the real siege and battle (been studying it all my life). During the filming of a movie at Alamo Village, I become the on-set liaison, running interference between movie people, tourists and Virginia Shahan — three formidable forces.
AS: I remember Tony Pasqua, Alamo enthusiast, married his wife in the San Fernando church on set. Have there been any other marriages or events to take place at Bracketville?
RC: Yes indeed. A number of them, including Dean and Debbie Smith about eleven years ago. Two of our current entertainers, David Lee Murray and Jana Sawyer Murray (our Miss Kitty) were married in our church last year — under the stars!
AS: Any stories you could tell us about John Wayne during filming?
RC: One of Happy’s favorite stories about Wayne on The Alamo is a good example of Wayne’s philosophy about his role as an actor. He finished shooting a scene in the Cantina, and his driver pulled up out front to take him up to the Alamo where another set-up was waiting for him to direct a scene. His driver was a young man, possibly working for a major star for the first time.
When Duke walked out of the Cantina, he was swamped by a dozen visitors for autographs. The driver figured he’d help Mr. Wayne out of this predicament and got out of the car.
“Mr. Wayne,” he said, “we really need to get you up to the Alamo. They are ready to shoot.”
Wayne glared at him. “Just a minute, kid! Don’t ya see I’m… talkin’ to these folks?” The young man wilted back into the car.
On the way up to the Alamo, he apologized and explained, “I just thought I was helping you out. Isn’t it costing something like sixty thousand dollars an hour to waste time on this movie?”
“That’s right, kid, sixty thou. But I’m not wasting time, I’m spending time. Those people — movie-goers — are my boss! If I don’t spend time with them, they may fire me.”
I think about Wayne’s comment a lot when we do movies today at Alamo Village. You don’t see much of this philosophy anymore. A very recent exception — a fellow with John Wayne’s attitude toward tourists — was George Kennedy — super gentleman.
AS: Are there any current plans to restore the Bracketville set? If so, in what ways?
In the best ways, very shortly. More on that later.
RC : Any future film projects planned for the Wayneamo?
We’ve just finished two and have been scouted several times recently, but Happy’s way of answering that question is still tops. “When they’re out here and their cameras are rolling, they MAY show up.”
AS: What are your future plans within the Alamo field? Certainly, many would love for you to work on a book. You’re a wealth of knowledge!
RC: Of course I will continue my passion for the real history of the Alamo and pursue it in any way I can, putting my two cents into any responsible discussion that captures my attention. My all-time greatest treat to date was being a consultant to production designer Michael Corenblith while he was designing and building the sets for The Alamo (2004). This brought me full circle and rewarded my patience.
As for a book? Well… someday maybe — after we restore Alamo Village. Thanks for your vote of confidence in me. Actually, you are more likely to see a film come out of me. I write screenplays better than books, and I’ve got several good ones written.
A big Texas thank you to Rich Curilla for taking the time to do the interview!
~Wade